~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Kommentare . But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. It won't be optimal, though. Related products. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . . R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. The flammables have hydrocarbons. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. #4. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Very interesting! Very nice! Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. . Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. . Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Its highest value is 1. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. If 50 degrees across the cond. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Bookmarks: Digg; del . Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. This may be the source of your oil confusion. . The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). This is because R134a. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. B. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. . If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. Answer: OK, I'll bite. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Stopleak is also risky. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. The car never overheats, if that has any import. Can I use the one for the R-12? 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. . We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. Temp switch works the aux fan. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. "Howdy, Folks!" With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. That is a good thing. Electric fans do wear out. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. R134a. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. CR4P). Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. . A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated?

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