More damage with one shot. I have got to wonder about this Neil Clapperton quoted above. Been hunting 49 years. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. CHEERS. For me the thing that has always solved this debate is simple. Because of the dynamic and chaotic nature of officer-involved shootings, officers are trained to shoot at center mass of an assailants torso from whatever side/angle of the torso that presents itself. Liver problems can also be caused by a variety of factors that damage the liver, such as viruses, alcohol use and obesity. The point here is this: it is okay that the Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command has decided to issue only Glock 19's. I know a LEO that works in Mendocino County CA. Heres what they found it did to those enemies bodies, as republished in New York Times reporter C.J. 158 gr 0.38" Special P and 0.357" Magnum semi-jacketed bullets will penetrate both sides of a human skull. This article will define what the question which handgun round has the best stopping power? means, and offer unbiased information that will help the readers to make up their own minds on the subject. Of course, not being in the military, or law enforcement, my goal is no collateral damage! I have never shot a people. A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. ago Haha. I like my Colt GOV. Trauma surgeons, the guys actually opening up peoples chests and trying to put them back together, say otherwise. If you need to kill someone with a single shot, a rifle is what you need, not a handgun.. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). If you cant always hunt effectively with it, is it big enough? I will address the people shooting the weapons in the military. Riley Bowman is the Director of Training at ConcealedCarry.com and the Host of the Concealed Carry Podcast. Taurus 45 who proved the .45-caliber round has SO MUCH more knockdown power than the 9mm that it only requires one shot to incapacitate a threat? I have never personally tested 9mm long range, but I have seen 45 Auto results. The fifteen round magazine contributes to the spray and pray thinking while the 1911 makes one concentrate on placing the shot. Missing it not an option. But the guy kept on coming. But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. Psychological factors play a much greater role. Trailing was easy in snow, but took nearly a mile to put down with another shot low through the heart. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase I just know the most important thing is to shoot a lot, and carry the gun you are most comfortable shooting. Damage: 22. Which Id be inclined to think a .45 would transfer more force more immediately taking the spirit out of most. How about that..most people shot by handguns survive. It normally doesnt do that with hollowpoints, either. The 9mm travels a great deal faster than the .45, with average muzzle velocity averaging between 1100-1200 FPS. You get Into a real shooting scenario. The argument about effectiveness, capacity, reliability, stopping power, etc has been going on as long as I remember, ad nauseum. If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please fill out our survey about your experience after being shot. 9mm. The average criminal etc. Would the same shot with More bullet have made a difference i think not. Everyone should be mocking the .223 as a pea shooter. Alvin York was a prodigy, a natural marksman of frankly terrifying and borderline-supernatural skill. The original FBI testing of bullets conducted in the late 1980s involved testing the Winchester 147 grain subsonic hollow point 9mm round, the Remington 185 grain hollow point .45 round and a 10mm 180 grain hollow point round. You need to be a little more specific. .45 caliber merely refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are a large variety of cartridges that fire b The 45 ACP is my choice of a Heavy Hitter. Bottom line, if you come at me and I shoot you with my 9 mm or my 45, or my 380, its going to hurt like hell! While each of them has no direct bearing on incapacitation, they must all be considered. Without fragmentation, temporary cavity wounds can be relatively minor. This gave the enemy a chance to still bury a spearhead in the shooters chest, before finally collapsing from internal damage and blood loss. I don't know about you, but my .45's seem to be plenty accurate, certainly as precise as any of my 9mm pistols. Robert MacNemerra knew nothing about firearms but his decision that the AR-15s chrome lined bore and chamber was a needless waste of money brought a whole lot of grief to a whole lot of people. None used a big cal but all targets were immediately incapacitated and all targets were within 1foot to 20 feet away. However, in a self-defense situation, the object isnt to kill your attacker; its to end their ability to cause you harm as quickly as possible. Explore. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. Ammunition can really change performance. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. Great little weapon !!! Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies Shooting survivors and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son expensive protein shakes after he lost much of his stomach. According to a sweeping 2016 survey, there were, at that time, more guns in the hands of Americans than there are cars on the road. But, this little word but often comes up in real life. But with the way things are going today I decided it was time, so I just bought S&W M&P 9 Shield. 2. I use a 1911 as thats what I learned on, prefer the way it feels in my hand. What a joke! Fired expert m14. He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. Now lets talk about wound cavities caused by different caliber handgun rounds. Their over 800 FPS and some approaching 900 FPS with the hotter +P loads. Let me suggest that politics might be at play. It did when it came to FMJ bullets. I cant compare to 9mm but I still want to carry 45acp. I was in the military for 15 years Ive been through several handgun changes. But I do like Cor- Bon, and Glaser POWRBALL BY COR-BON. We look forward to serving you. Look for a box or option labeled Home Page (Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari) or On Startup (Chrome). So its definitely capable. I served in the USMC and in combat. Circulatory collapse results from massive bleeding caused by bullet wounds primarily to the heart, other major organs or major blood vessels of the torso. And while its not the final word on wound ballistics, its an important contribution to what should be an ongoing discussion. Reality. If an operator like a .45 go for it. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam as well as a 12 ga. .45 stayed on the hip. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 600 ft/s will penetrate 4' plate glass. Really late to the discussion. Accounting for human anatomy and the fact that an agent may fire at a suspect from a variety of angles, it was established that 12 inches was the minimum Ballistic gel is a joke and not a valid substitute for actual flesh and bone. Among other things, this A majority of FBI shooters are both faster and more accurate using 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W rounds. Its probably just psychological, but real evidence that the .45 is more effective. (My opinion) I have long advocated carrying 1911s with 8 extra magazines. At 8yoa my dad taught me to shoot with a 1911. But nearly worthless in real world situations. When they enter the body, they spread out into a star-shaped pattern that enhances the damage caused by the wound channel. My partner and I got to the apartment and the door was open. That much is true. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. I do not argue with this decision; however, I believe agents who can control the larger weapons/bullets without a problem should have the choice to carry weapons with the larger bullets. Why dont these experts just admit that they prefer Glocks and let it go at that? The tests resulted in the selection in 1989 of the 10mm bullet as the most effective and accurate round for FBI agents to carry. Whats more, for those who are considering purchasing a firearm for home defense, but have not yet done so, it is important to know what kind of firearm is appropriate for your needs. Your shots have to count. The .223 generates a far larger shock wave, and penetrates farther, than the .22. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Self Defense and Body Damage, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License, Best Self-Defense Caliber and Damage to the Human Body, Effectiveness of Bullet Wounds: How Gunshot Wounds Work, What Happens When You Get Shot: Damage to the Human Body. You have either been there, done that or you are a very common sense person. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. After reading your article, I had to 1.) You know, Indians killed each other, white settlers, and hunted with a bow &. I think the pain element is still to much with paint balls for Obamas new policy I think dart guns with the rubber suction cups would be more his speed. John Michael Callahan served in law enforcement for 44 years. I can say with great certainty that many animals dont just simply fall over and die. Nothing beats a 12 guage with 100 rounds of 00 and slugs. Pain is generally physiologically irrelevant, but where present often just makes motivated targets angry and thus, more motivated. Steel BB or 0.177" lead pellet at 450 ft/s will burst a human eye. Anyway, stay tuned we shall wait and see. Lee reloading gear. There are tons of manuals and a ton of information so that you can write an informed post. 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles that are, under identical testing conditions, outperforming most premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI. Now good defensive hollow point is a different story. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. He gets there with his partner and the front door of the bus opens. I have found that I prefer the 9mm as an EDC concealed carry. Any of these rounds will do the job in the hands of a skilled shooter, period. When the. There have been several attempts by ballistics engineers to increase the wounding ability of a round. Only two factors are within your control: the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed. If the first bullet ricochets off the windshield, the succeeding rounds will make it through. Hit your enemy Quickly and Hes Dead. My next handgun will be either a Ruger SR 1911 or a Kimber 1911 clone. I am sorry for your incounter. Here is the money point: assume you will only get ONE shot at the perp. Let me now take you back to 1987. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. Select the option or tab named Internet Options (Internet Explorer), Options (Firefox), Preferences (Safari) or Settings (Chrome). Cheap crap. Take it this way, someone shoots at you, you at them. .45 acp is a good round and I prefer it used in close quarter environments becuse it is heavier and pack more energy. Give SOCOM GLocks which shoot 9mm (Glocks are great guns and I dont have a problem with the 9mm, great cartridge especially with all the advancements over the last 30 years) as I was saying problem solved. Modern ammunition changes the field somewhat. They argue that the 9mm round has more penetrating power because the round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air. What kind of insane non-scientific reasoning is this? So that is where the saying and belief came from. very obvious. WebOP you had it right for penetration, 7.62 > 9mm > .45. The HRP is concerned with long-term health consequences of radiation exposure such as cancer, as well as adverse effects to the central nervous and cardiovascular systems. I am a Force Recon Marine with 10 years of advanced military training and have served 7 separate combat tours. Startle affect. John I agree, the Browning Black Label in 380 ACP is a superb gun. I also am a NRA Certified Instructor and gunsmith in Colorado. Our PD Captain has suggested that if I wish to carry, as a civilian, that I carry a .45 cal. There are far too many different considerations and circumstances between self-defense necessities and military/LE necessities to list in a comment section; but theyre important distinctions. The FBI has made a pragmatic decision that the 147 grain 9mm bullet is the best bullet for its agents because it allows for more rounds in the handgun. I wonder what the future holds? If that were true, we would only have one size Shoe, Clothing Etc.

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