Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. Mine gets very hot. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. A downside of the 2.2 motor is that it is noticeably draggy above the 25km/h cutoff though something we experienced during back-to-back between the Levo and Canyon Spectral:ON. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. oooof! Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. Theres still a whirring noise from the metallic gears inside, and the pitch increases slightly at higher cadences. JavaScript is disabled. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. Otherwise I do not care. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. Then we'll fix that for you. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. 2. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. Perfect? IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. -- Wild Bill. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. Shimano said August was the best. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! Too hot to handle even. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. - Strong but very well-tuned power delivery I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. Chuckle. Also did some trail work. When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. My take away besides the obviously pro/con talking points was the weight of the bike. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . Still, the performance in the adaptive E-MTB mode is excellent, with smooth and flexible power delivery, and riders wanting plenty of grunt will certainly dig the Bosch motor. Stab happy!". You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Probably more than some rattle. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. 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